Predestination. God’s sovereign choice. I have written five different posts on this topic. This will not be my last, but I am close.
Before I begin, let me remind you that the most important thing is not that you become convinced. Rather, it is that you continue to trust in God no matter what is true about Him. The fact is, if it is true, then it is true in such a way that our human minds cannot yet understand. We cannot grasp the intricate workings of what feels like free will to us, against God’s free will. During this post, I may use such words as “impossible”, “always”, “never”, “only”, and a host of other strong words that portray my position. I do not expect you to agree with me, but I use those words because this issue is that way for me. So, please bear with me.
I thought the other day that I had the perfect way to tell you of God’s sovereign choice of us, but now, as I approach it, I am unsure.
The single most telling evidence for me that God chooses all of those who are saved, and that we do not choose Him is the numerous times in both the New, and Old Testament that depict God as the chooser, and us as the receivers. I have lost count at well over one hundred times, words both Hebrew and Greek that have been used to describe the process, or action of God choosing a certain “people”, “remnant”, or “elect” to receive His good gifts, most notably, grace.
So far, I have counted forty different instances of the words “chose”, or “chosen” when used in reference to God’s choice of those He did save. In other words, forty different times, the writers of New Testament Scripture used words very descriptive of God choosing the elect. To this, you may say, “So what? What does that prove?” By itself, maybe very little. However, when taken next to the fact that not even once do any of the writers of the New Testament mention any word even closely resembling the words “choose” or “chosen” in relation to us choosing God, you can see the significance. NOT EVEN ONCE!
Now, I admit my study has not yet been exhaustive. I have not poured over Scripture with a fine tooth comb, yet. I have only used a hair brush. There may be one or two gems hiding on me, and if they are, I will find them. But here’s my point; FORTY DIFFERENT times the Apostles wrote about God’s choice of us, by calling us the chosen, or by saying God chose us from before the foundation of the earth, and many other such phrases. Not even once did they write about us choosing Him.
The idea of God’s sovereign choice is all over this book we call the Bible. As I said, I lost count at well over a hundred times the Bible mentioned God choosing people, or places, or kings, or actions, over the very people He created. In the face of all this evidence, finding the idea of man’s fee will would be like trying to find a needle in a haystack.
Put that thought on hold. Here’s a question. Why would God go to such great lengths to reveal the choices He makes, to tell us how He chose us, if it weren’t true? It is impossible to me to believe that we have free will over God’s will, absolutely impossible. When I did the search, by hand, I might add, reading many verses and their contexts, it became clear very quickly that God is the only one with true free will. After all, how many times does God need to tell us we are His chosen, His elect, before we believe it?
I only have one other thing I want to briefly mention tonight. It is the fact that prior to us being set free in Christ, we are slaves to sin. This is a fact well established , and I do not expect to have to defend it. What does a slave do? Maybe a better question is, whom does a slave serve? His master, of course. If there is a slave, then there is a master. In our case, before we knew Christ, sin was our master, and we were unable to break free, unable to escape. That is scriptural.
Now take that thought a little deeper. If we are slaves, are we free agents? In other words, if we are slaves, are we not owned by our master? And if owned, are we free to choose anything other than what our master demands of us? Are we free agents before we know Jesus? This is the most important question regarding our free will verses God’s sovereign choice, because if we are free to choose, then God has no sovereign will, He must leave us free to choose, and instead of planning, God must react to our choices. Now that is a very simplified way of describing a cause and effect that would be far more intricate and detailed. However, the basic thrust is the same.
If we choose, then God reacts. If I choose to believe in Jesus, then He MUST save me. Do you see the problem with our free will? Once we say that we chose God, we make God a slave to our choices. I’m not saying God couldn’t make it possible. But why would God say He chose us, if in fact, He is not a free agent, and we are? Both cannot be free, at least not in the way we understand free will. It is impossible. Either one or the other must be true. Either we are free and God is our slave, or God is free, and we are now His slaves. Please note that in Romans 6:22, we are described as having been freed from sin, and enslaved to God. Even Paul wrote in such a way as to say that we are God’s slaves, and slaves are not free agents at all, are they?
Furthermore, if we are slaves, and not allowed to choose freely, how can we be free to choose Jesus? A slave serves a master. We were slaves to sin, thus sin was our master. How could a slave choose what is right, if he is not free to do so? Paul used the word “slave” to describe us much more than that one time in Romans. I think he understood pretty well that we were not free at all to choose Jesus, but instead, the true freeing came when God chose us.
Again, I must stress that for now, it does not matter that you believe in God’s sovereign choice. The only thing necessary is that you remain in your trust of Him. All other issues pale beside that one. Be at peace, brothers and sisters.
Before I begin, let me remind you that the most important thing is not that you become convinced. Rather, it is that you continue to trust in God no matter what is true about Him. The fact is, if it is true, then it is true in such a way that our human minds cannot yet understand. We cannot grasp the intricate workings of what feels like free will to us, against God’s free will. During this post, I may use such words as “impossible”, “always”, “never”, “only”, and a host of other strong words that portray my position. I do not expect you to agree with me, but I use those words because this issue is that way for me. So, please bear with me.
I thought the other day that I had the perfect way to tell you of God’s sovereign choice of us, but now, as I approach it, I am unsure.
The single most telling evidence for me that God chooses all of those who are saved, and that we do not choose Him is the numerous times in both the New, and Old Testament that depict God as the chooser, and us as the receivers. I have lost count at well over one hundred times, words both Hebrew and Greek that have been used to describe the process, or action of God choosing a certain “people”, “remnant”, or “elect” to receive His good gifts, most notably, grace.
So far, I have counted forty different instances of the words “chose”, or “chosen” when used in reference to God’s choice of those He did save. In other words, forty different times, the writers of New Testament Scripture used words very descriptive of God choosing the elect. To this, you may say, “So what? What does that prove?” By itself, maybe very little. However, when taken next to the fact that not even once do any of the writers of the New Testament mention any word even closely resembling the words “choose” or “chosen” in relation to us choosing God, you can see the significance. NOT EVEN ONCE!
Now, I admit my study has not yet been exhaustive. I have not poured over Scripture with a fine tooth comb, yet. I have only used a hair brush. There may be one or two gems hiding on me, and if they are, I will find them. But here’s my point; FORTY DIFFERENT times the Apostles wrote about God’s choice of us, by calling us the chosen, or by saying God chose us from before the foundation of the earth, and many other such phrases. Not even once did they write about us choosing Him.
The idea of God’s sovereign choice is all over this book we call the Bible. As I said, I lost count at well over a hundred times the Bible mentioned God choosing people, or places, or kings, or actions, over the very people He created. In the face of all this evidence, finding the idea of man’s fee will would be like trying to find a needle in a haystack.
Put that thought on hold. Here’s a question. Why would God go to such great lengths to reveal the choices He makes, to tell us how He chose us, if it weren’t true? It is impossible to me to believe that we have free will over God’s will, absolutely impossible. When I did the search, by hand, I might add, reading many verses and their contexts, it became clear very quickly that God is the only one with true free will. After all, how many times does God need to tell us we are His chosen, His elect, before we believe it?
I only have one other thing I want to briefly mention tonight. It is the fact that prior to us being set free in Christ, we are slaves to sin. This is a fact well established , and I do not expect to have to defend it. What does a slave do? Maybe a better question is, whom does a slave serve? His master, of course. If there is a slave, then there is a master. In our case, before we knew Christ, sin was our master, and we were unable to break free, unable to escape. That is scriptural.
Now take that thought a little deeper. If we are slaves, are we free agents? In other words, if we are slaves, are we not owned by our master? And if owned, are we free to choose anything other than what our master demands of us? Are we free agents before we know Jesus? This is the most important question regarding our free will verses God’s sovereign choice, because if we are free to choose, then God has no sovereign will, He must leave us free to choose, and instead of planning, God must react to our choices. Now that is a very simplified way of describing a cause and effect that would be far more intricate and detailed. However, the basic thrust is the same.
If we choose, then God reacts. If I choose to believe in Jesus, then He MUST save me. Do you see the problem with our free will? Once we say that we chose God, we make God a slave to our choices. I’m not saying God couldn’t make it possible. But why would God say He chose us, if in fact, He is not a free agent, and we are? Both cannot be free, at least not in the way we understand free will. It is impossible. Either one or the other must be true. Either we are free and God is our slave, or God is free, and we are now His slaves. Please note that in Romans 6:22, we are described as having been freed from sin, and enslaved to God. Even Paul wrote in such a way as to say that we are God’s slaves, and slaves are not free agents at all, are they?
Furthermore, if we are slaves, and not allowed to choose freely, how can we be free to choose Jesus? A slave serves a master. We were slaves to sin, thus sin was our master. How could a slave choose what is right, if he is not free to do so? Paul used the word “slave” to describe us much more than that one time in Romans. I think he understood pretty well that we were not free at all to choose Jesus, but instead, the true freeing came when God chose us.
Again, I must stress that for now, it does not matter that you believe in God’s sovereign choice. The only thing necessary is that you remain in your trust of Him. All other issues pale beside that one. Be at peace, brothers and sisters.
5 comments:
Elaine, Thank you for your comment.
With regards to Adam and Eve, we are not like they were, for they lived in the garden, in communion with God, physically. None of us ever experienced that. Also, when they made their choices, they were not yet slaves to sin, they were free, having been created that way. Again, another difference between them and us. None of us has ever been free from sin, until we knew Jesus. So, positionally speaking, prior to being saved, we are slaves to sin, whereas positionally, prior to falling, Adam and Eve were NOT slaves to sin. It’s impossible, really, to use Adam and Eve as examples, because they lived in a way none of us ever experienced before we met Jesus.
Likewise, they did not know the difference between good and evil prior to eating from the tree, whereas we do know the difference. They were commanded not to do something, and they did it anyway. Thus, they were enslaved to sin, and passed that on to us. They did not pass free will, or the ability to do good on to us, for they lost that when they were booted out of the garden. I made a statement to the Boy’s Club Friday which I will make here as well. Prior to us knowing Jesus, and being saved from slavery, every action or thought we make has at least one evil motive behind it. It cannot be any other way for those enslaved to sin. God has said in the past that our every thought is only evil all of the time. Now, He said that more than likely in comparison to His holiness. But there is the measuring stick for “earning” salvation, His holiness.
Elaine, how can a man or woman whose every thought is only evil all of the time choose to believe in Christ? In other words, how can a person take the step of faith, and choose to put on something good, when he is a slave to something else?
I am glad you used Matthew 22: 1-14. However, it supports my position far more than the position of our free choice. See, when the invitation was first issued, all those who had been invited did not come. In the end, what do the servants do? They are instructed by the King to go out, and invite all. However, the action they took speaks otherwise, for they did not ask people to come, rather, they GATHERED them, regardless of who they were, or what they had done. There is no mention of any choice given after the original invitees have rejected the gospel. The fact is, Matthew 22 speaks very loudly of the choice a man or woman would make if it was left up to them. They would say no, every one of them, just as the first invitees did. The change in directive was not just to who was invited, but by what means they would come.
The Greek word for "invite" used here is "kaleo". Would you be interested to know that the definition for that word is a summons, or a king's summoning. It is also translated as "to name". Hmmm.........this is getting interesting, isn't it? So, the idea that this is an open ivitation which you can refuse isn't really what Matthew was describing. After all, when a King summons you, you come. And the other translation, "to name", well, doesn't that sound an awful lot like when we are called, we are named as His? In fact, does not Revelation tell us we are given a name that no one else will know? I submit to you that this "invitation" we are giving out is not a choice, but rather a summons.
Again, that speaks of God’s choice, not ours. And the final verse of that parable says it all, "For many are called, but few are chosen."
Elaine, the garment analogy “sounds” good. But………..it is not scriptural. I hate saying that, too, because it makes me sound so arrogant in knowledge, and I hate that in me. But, the truth is, our choice is never mentioned, even when it comes to believing.
Paul specifically said it could not be by any works, but only by grace, as a gift from God. The choice to receive grace is not ours. The choice to GIVE it belongs to God. Choosing speaks of works, it speaks loudly that if I choose right, God HAS to save me, based on what I have done, namely, the choice I made to believe. Do you see the flaw, Elaine? Yes, a choice doesn’t sound like works, until you dig at it, and see that if I say I chose to believe, I can boast in my wisdom for doing so.
As for why are we told to spread the good news? 1. Because Jesus said so, and He is King.. 2. Because we don’t know whom He has chosen. 3. Because that is part of His will, and His will be done, regardless of what we think of it.
Sorry for sounding so “know it allish”. I DON’T know it all, but I have been studying God’s sovereign choice for two years, alongside grace. Don’t ask me how that combination happened, I couldn’t answer it even if I tried. It just is.
Elaine, when we view predestination and choice, we are better off trying to view it from the perspective of an almighty and Holy God. From our perspective, and we are arrogant, it will always look like we chose Him. But that’s not at all what He has revealed to us in His word, not when you look at all the evidence.
God bless you, too, Elaine :)
Elaine,
I am not saying I am totally right. However, I am saying that the evidence is way stacked against us choosing God. Now, I know the Life Application Scholars are smart. However, the analogy they used was a setting for very wealthy people, not commoners, like the people Jesus spoke most often with. So, it MIGHT follow that they would understand the idea of being given wedding clothes, but those wedding clothes would, as you know, be made and paid for by Jesus, and dressing in them isn't optional, i.e, there is no choice.
I do not question schoars credibilities. However, I do question "doctrines" that have no biblical foundation. And the idea that we "chose" Jesus has absolutely no scriptural backing that I can find, and believe me, I have searched, and searched, and searched, because I, like you, "feel" like I chose him. Aren't you the one who told me to not always trust my "feelings"? That's a gentle joke, Elaine.
My mind tells me I chose Him. But my heart, ahh, that tells me He chose me. Which should I believe? And His Word, well, the evidence is overwhelmingly in favor of us not choosing Him, but Him choosing us. And the last statement Jesus made at the end of that parable cannot be denied, many ARE called, but FEW are chosen.
The other thing that bothers ne so deeply is the human arrogance factor. After all, humans ARE arrogant, and the doctrine of free will seems to me to be the most arrogant of all. We are "creatures", and fallen ones at that. That is our lot. Jesus makes that different, but the gift belongs to Him, not us. It is His to give as He chooses, and I believe He said something similar to that somewhere else, though I do not have the time right now to verify that. Anyway, have a good evening, Elaine. I do respect your belief, I just don't believe it myself. Thanks.
Excellent article.
We do not choose God. It is only through the Holy Spirit that we can come to an actualization that Jesus is Lord.
Adam and Eve would have still been punished if they had told the truth because God said "if you eat of it's fruit, you will die."
Throughout history, God used the Holy Spirit to accomplish his will. He turned armies against each other, mother against daughter, father against son, etc.
Fernando Dunn II
fdiidesign.com
Fernando,
Thank you. I do have one question, though, and maybe you know the answer. Why do people hate the idea of God choosing us so much? I think I know some of it, but lately, the reactions to it I see are really kind of disturbing. Have any insight?. Thanks.
Melissa,
I truly understand your feelings about God's sovereign choice. Here's what Martin Luther had to say about it.
"If we do not feel the weight of the passion, the cross, and the death, we cannot cope with the problem of providence without either hurt to ourselves or secret anger with God. That is why the Adam in us has to be quite dead before we can bear this doctrine, and drink this strong wine, without harm. So beware! Avoid drinking wine when you are a suckling infant. Every doctrine requires us to be of the appropriate ability at the right age, and of due maturity."
The fact is, if predestination is true, it will take monumental trust in God, because yeah, to us, it doesn't look too loving, does it? Yet we are looking at this from our perspective, and we cannot hope to understand it from God's, because we do not see what He sees, or know what He knows. Check out Acts 16:14. I think it might happen something like that.
However, having said that, do not believe in this doctrine just because someone else does. My perspective is not yours, and yours is not mine. It's okay to approach this, and to seek to know it truly. but in the end, as I have been saying, the most important thing is that you trust God. All else pales besides that. Just leave room for it, and see what God does.
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